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FHA No-No

To quote Professor Pippington’s blog, “Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot!” This emotional outburst was in response to a listing for which the description stated that no VA buyers would be considered. FHA buyers, on the other hand, were apparently cool.

I might be able to rationalize this, even if it does smack of being anti-American. With VA financing, there is a laundry list of “non-allowables” or, in English, fees which the buyer in a typical transaction would customarily pay yet in the case of VA are required of the seller. These are generally smaller fees with one exception — the buyer’s share of the escrow fee.

I saw something this morning which I don’t get, however, no matter how many cups of coffee I ply my slow-starting Friday morning brain with. (And you know I am off to a slow start, because I just ended that sentence with a preposition and was willing to let it ride.)

“VA may be ok at the right price and terms. Seller says no FHA.” Say what? Sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the government insured loan bed. Usually, this stuff is money driven, but in this case, it doesn’t add up. Sure, there is a list of “non-allowables” for FHA financing also, but the total of the buyer’s customary charges which are awarded to the seller’s side of the balance sheet in the case of FHA financing generally totals a couple of hundred dollars at most. VA financing actually costs the seller more.

Maybe it is the appraisal that this seller fears, but that doesn’t make any more sense. The appraisal processes for VA and FHA loans are very similar, and while all these appraisals involve a slightly higher degree of difficulty, they aren’t  your grandmother’s government sponsored loan appraisals. The horror stories of yore are just that — stories. While the seller may get saddled with providing a new GFI outlet or three, the days of having to rebuild from the studs out to appease the VA or FHA lender are gone.

More to point, if a seller is willing to accept one, why wouldn’t he accept the less-costly cousin as well?

Whatever. So much doesn’t make sense these days. It’s like someone bopped us all with a silly stick. This same listing says, “Fax offers (don’t e-mail anything).” What about if I fill up the tank, drive across town, and present the offer in carbon triplicate? Would that be OK? Do you think if I sent the offer from my computer via a crazy, newfangled technology called the eFax, he could trace my offensive use of eco-friendly tools and disqualify my client?

Better not to take chances. And, I am guessing that electronic signatures are out of the question as well. We wouldn’t want to make this too easy.

TGIF.

Kris Berg

Kris Berg is Co-Owner and Designated Broker of San Diego Castles Realty. She has been serving San Diego buyers and sellers since 1997.

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  • http://novarealestate.wordpress.com Kim Hannemann

    Previous low FHA appraisal – stuck with it for 6 months.

  • http://www.dougfrancis.com Doug Francis

    This input must be coming from their agents, who are just putting hurdles up to getting their listings sold.

  • http://www.jimklinge.com/ Jim the Realtor

    I’m with you Byrk, but in competitive situations, like we have all over SD, the sellers/listing agents have gotten greedy.

    More on the antics being employed by bank-sellers and their listing agents (beyond the normal “as-is” and must prequal with their lender):

    1. No appraisal contingency.
    2. Seven days for inspections.
    3. $250/day for each day you are late closing.
    4. Counter-offering the highest-and-best offer.
    5. No repairs, no termite
    6. Listing agents having their own disclosure kits that regurgitates all the same boilerplate on every other disclosure in place.
    7. Listing agents require the buyer’s agents to upload the offer on LA’s website.
    8. Terrible or no photos/remarks.
    9. Communicate by email only.
    10. Cross county lines and still be cocky.

    Or how about the short-sale listing agents now demanding that the buyer pay for processing the short sale – we came across one that charged the buyer $2,500 for services that the listing agent should handle as part of their regular duty to close the sale.

    And somebody tell these agents that Halloween is a way off – see last pic: http://www.sdlookup.com/Pictures-090014183

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

  • http://www.jimklinge.com/ Jim the Realtor

    What are the-powers-that-be doing?

    Nothing, but Sandicor has announced that we now have a reciprocal agreement with Hemet’s MLS!

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

  • arizonadude

    FHA: the next bailout

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125202440174685297.html

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

  • sdbri

    As you noted, FHA takes longer and is costlier. Certain houses simply wouldn’t qualify for FHA loan without repairs for which the money does not exist. In those cases, it’s similar to demanding a price drop from a seller with no equity. Bottom line, if a median priced property is vacant an FHA offer is worth at least $3K less if not more. To be fair, so is an offer contingent on the seller selling!

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

  • http://www.jimklinge.com/ Jim the Realtor

    In the past two years, the number of loans insured by the FHA has soared and its market share reached 23% in the second quarter, up from 2.7% in 2006, according to Inside Mortgage Finance. FHA-backed loans outstanding totaled $429 billion in fiscal 2008, a number projected to hit $627 billion this year.

    Rising defaults have eaten through the FHA’s cushion. Some 7.8% of FHA loans at the end of the second quarter were 90 days late or more, or in foreclosure, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association, a figure roughly equal to the national average for all loans. That is up from 5.4% a year ago.

    Resulting FHA losses are offset by premiums paid by borrowers. Federal law says the FHA must maintain, after expected losses, reserves equal to at least 2% of the loans insured by the agency. The ratio last year was around 3%, down from 6.4% in 2007.

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

  • sdbri

    Like the FDIC, FHA can set whatever premiums they like. Which hopefully it will be taking advantage of in short order.

    From arizona’s article:
    ‘A senior official at HUD, which oversees the FHA, said there is “no risk” that the FHA would require money from Congress if the ratio falls below 2%.’

    That’s because they can charge whatever they want. If you are hoping for FHA to fail, you’re not being cynical enough.

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

  • Mike C

    Many of the No FHA’s I’ve seen are the result of FHA not financing properties in a poorly run HOA.

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

  • vegas nrba

    From the banks perspective regarding FHA offers its usually much more cost effective and quicker to accept the cash offers.
    I will give you a typical Vegas Bank Owned home example:
    decent 1600 sq ft listed at 120K.
    We get 20 offers on it.Do a highest and best offer. 6 offers are cash and the rest fha/va.
    Highest cash offer 130k . Highest FHA 145k.
    what would you do?

    well if the bank takes the fha offer here is what typically happens:
    -long closing with a 65% closing percentage
    -wont appraise at sale value.
    -needs some repairs before closing.

    If bank takes the cash deal- its easy, painless and closes in 20 days. no worries about repairs , appraisal etc.

    I have had so many deals where the bank took the FHA deal – it took over 2 months to close-and the final price had to be lowered due to low appraisal TO A PRICE THAT WAS ACTUALLY LESS THAN THE HIGHEST CASH OFFER. This happens daily.

    now with that being said , I wrote a informative piece on:
    HOW TO GET YOUR FHA OFFER ACCEPTED

    http://vegasbubble.com/2009/08/28/how-to-get-your-fha-offer-accepted/

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

  • BSR

    Jim,

    You wrote “More on the antics being employed by bank-sellers and their listing agents”

    I think, these “antics” are basically saying we want true “As Is” Cash buyers. I don’t see a problem. These sales will help make homes more affordable when they in turn become comps.

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

  • chrisL

    LOL, Halloween!!

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuXMXmqSHnc&feature=related Joe Feinhandler

    It’s a misconception that FHA takes longer than conventional financing because of loan officers that have no clue how to get an FHA deal done. Most loan officers that have been in the business for under 10 years have just started doing FHA loans in the past year and most still think it is some sort of subprime program. On FHA the lender can still order the appraisal so from order to complete report we are seeing them back in 3-4 days. On conventional deals right now appraisals are taking 8-14 days because of the appraisal management company freak show. For some reason a lot of agents think that a bank owned property cannot be FHA financed because of the 90 day flip rule but that dosent apply to bank owned and foreclosed, only private party transfers. They also do not require clear termite unless it is in the purchase contract.

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

  • http://www.sandiegomortgagefinder.com/ Joe Feinhandler

    “the buyer in a typical transaction would customarily pay yet in the case of VA are required of the seller”
    Kris this is not a true statement. Like you said there are fee’s that the buyer is not allowed to pay or “non-allowables” but over time that has been twisted as the seller must pay. These fee’s can come from anywhere but the buyer in line item fee’s on the HUD. On deals where the seller has had to net a specific amount I have seen these fee’s covered by rebate, loan origination and even agent concessions when the debt ratio was too high to raise loan costs. The big issue that I have seen with VA is there is NO give on the termite work but on FHA if it dosent menion termite in the contract it dosent have to be done.

  • Charlene

    Thanks for that item, Jim.

    As someone who will be going the FHA route, it’s disappointing to encounter the sneering & contempt that some people have for people like me. I am not the bottom-feeder that you might think (and my FICO is AWESOME!)

    I’ve encountered many listings that state “no FHA.” I’ve found that most realtors simply don’t know the current rules for FHA and even fewer know about the 203k rehab loan. One house that I’m interested in is asking the buyer to pay for the seller’s costs. That one is a short sale.

    For those who “demand” 20% down, consider this: 10 years ago, when I was 35, I was talked out of buying a home because I didn’t have 20% down. My goal then, as now, is to have a home paid off by the time I retire. Today, instead of being 1/3 of the way through a mortgage commitment, I have 20% down in cash…..for 1999 prices. (I refuse to liquidate 401k $) My rent has increased by 110% and the payment for the house in 1999, would have been less than my rent now. Why should I be less deserving of retirement stability than anyone else?

    P.S The Halloween comment was so true!

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

  • tj and the bear

    In a world where the government is trying everything and anything to push people into homes, it’s nice to hear there’s some countervailing forces. If this sentiment were more widespread the FHA might actually have a chance at survival.

    On second thought… nah, it’s still toast.

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

  • PJ Cannon

    I have a credit score of 800, make good income working for a top engineering company, and have lost out on numerous properties since March, which I realize now was likely due to my FHA financing. No one can tell my the contract submitted that I am a mature, responsible female with a steady job and excellent credit, as well as a previous home owner.

    After reading the article and the posts, I’m feeling much better about my decision to throw in the towel and rent for another year to save for a 20% downpayment so I am not discriminated against with FHA financing.

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

  • DKO

    For the flipper-seller, an FHA loan is a non-starter since title needs 90 day seasonsing. Most flippers want to get in and out ASAP so waiting 90 days to change title again is avoided.

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

  • http://effectivedemand.blogspot.com/ Effective Demand

    As DKO says 90 day seasoning is a barrier for any 3rd party sale on the courthouse steps (or any change of title).

    MPR (minimum property requirements) are also an issue. If you don’t meet them, no FHA.

    Most of the “NO FHA” comments I see are because of one of these 2 issues.

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

  • http://wcvarones.blogspot.com W.C. Varones

    I’m glad. FHA is for marginally qualified speculators with no down payment, and it’s a huge risk to the taxpayers.

  • http://www.wcvarones.blogspot.com/ W.C. Varones

    FHA is a huge scam to give speculators free put options at the expense of taxpayers. It’s going to end badly.

    As long as they’re handing them out, I want my free put option. F the taxpayers.

    http://wcvarones.blogspot.com/2009/09/fha-subprime-lending-about-to-blow-up.html

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

  • http://www.rickarvielo.com/ Rick Arvielo
  • http://www.metlife.com/ Karina

    Hi,

    Can a mortgage commitment contingency EXCLUDE FHA laons? My deal on fell through after the bank realized the condo association had an FHA outstanding already and owed more than $10K in fees. Now the seller is REFUSING to refund the downpayment saying it does not apply to the type of mortgage I applied for.

    K from NYC.

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

  • Alex

    Its another way that banks and realtors can discriminate under the table. I really think this should be called the new “red lining” of the new 21st century.
    Attention State Attorneys, easy pickens if it wasn’t for the bank and lender lobbists.

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

  • AK

    Hi, I’m the original poster of the “Whiskey Tango Foxtrot” on the Piggington.com forums. Believe it or not I got an offer accepted and hope to have keys 45 days from now, assuming the appraisal is good and no little arthropods have been munching on the framing.

    Now about those seller-paid closing costs … I got two different estimates from two different lenders. One estimated about $3000 in non-allowables. The other estimated … $50, for a termite report. A cynic might be forgiven for thinking that lenders were exploiting the myth of non-allowables to pad loans with junk fees. I guess I’ll find out at closing.

  • http://www.sandiegomortgagefinder.com joe feinhandler

    AK.. Here is a list of the non-allowable fee’s from the VA website. Many don’t apply to California but many do. The fee’s can NOT be paid by a VA buyer but that does not mean that they have to be paid by the seller. I am in the middle of 2 VA transactions right now where I am paying the non-allowables as the lender. I have also seen transactions where the agents have “donated” to the costs.

    • lender’s inspections, except in construction loan cases
    • loan closing or settlement fees
    • document preparation fees
    • preparation of loan papers or conveyance fees
    • attorney’s services other than for title work charged by the lender
    • photographs
    • interest rate lock-in fees
    • postage and other mailing charges, telephone calls, and other overhead
    • amortization schedules, pass books, and membership or entrance fees
    • escrow fees or charges
    • notary fees
    • commitment fees or marketing fees of any secondary purchaser of the mortgage
    • preparation and recoding of assignment of mortgage to any secondary
    purchaser of the mortgage
    • trustee’s fees or charges
    • loan application or processing fees
    • fees for preparation of a truth-in-lending disclosure statement
    • fees charged by loan brokers, finders or other third (3rd) parties whether
    affiliated with the lender or not
    • tax service fees
    • termite inspections (except cash-out/regular refinance transactions).

  • http://sandiegohomeblog.com Kris Berg

    AK – Congrats! And it is a thrill to meet the guy with the wicked funny sense of humor.
    Joe – Thank you for the comment and the very comprehensive laundry list. I will forgive you for the agent “donation” remark. :)

  • Josh

    This is such a disservice to FHA buyers. I am in the market for a new home, never one late in 8 years of credit history. My FICO is great but I have listing agents brushing me off b/c I insist on FHA. Is there a remedy for this? Against the law? Could I sue the listing agent for discrimination or breach of fiduciary duty?

    This comment was originally posted on bubbleinfo.com

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  • San Diego Castles Realty
  • 10636 Scripps Summit Court, Suite 153
  • San Diego, CA 92131
  • P: 858.530.2374
  • F: 858.876.1701
  • E: info (at) sandiegocastles.com
  • CA DRE# 01241572

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  • DRE# 01853496
  • Steve Berg, Broker
  • CA DRE# 00762095