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HOA Rules Gone to the Dogs

I have spent part of the past three weeks working with one of our buyer clients looking for the perfect condominium. They are the nicest people. (Note to other clients: All of our clients are the nicest people.) They are well qualified, they have high FICO scores, and they have a 20% down payment. They are also very flexible, and we have seen many properties that would work perfectly for them. So, you ask, why haven’t we succeeded in getting into escrow?

Because, nice as they may be, they have a scarlet letter. His name is Bob Barker.

OK, I made that up. I don’t actually know his name – he has requested anonymity in case this thing ends up going legal — but this fellow who we shall call “Bob Barker” is a dog.

Bob is not just any dog, mind you, and that’s the problem. I am told he weighs in at a whopping 45 pounds. While this is not enough to bench press Elvis (the old Elvis in the jump suit, not the other one), it is certainly enough to put a respectable dent in one’s sofa.

So what we have here is a case of the dog wagging the house tale, which is as it should be. Bob is a member of the family. While he is not a dependent in the strictest IRS sense, he doesn’t (strictly speaking) have any visible means of support other than my nicest among nice clients. (Did I mention they are nice?) Which means, where they go, he must necessarily follow. And, what I have learned over these past few weeks is that while many condominiums permit pets, most have pet restrictions. You need to confirm the “pet policy” in each case, since they all seem to be different. The listing agents and the MLS rarely help since most agents do not appear to have the time or interest to call the HOA property manager and determine the pet facts before listing the property.

But here is the real kicker – the blatant discrimination, the assault on all that is just and decent. Why, in one project, is a 29 pound dog okay while a 31 pound dog is not? Sure, if we are going to discriminate, there has to be a cutoff, but the point at which the various HOAs have determined that man’s best friend is no longer an adorable, scruffy, whimsical companion but a bloated, gluttonous beast in need a of a Pilates regimen is random at best. Sometimes it is 30 pounds, other times 35 pounds, and still others, 15 is the magic number beyond which there is no room at the inn.

How is it that an HOA can blatantly discriminate like this? It’s arbitrary and capricious. Take my dog, Simon, please. He only barks when someone comes to the door (and when I am holding something that appears edible) which, in the case of the former, is exactly when a dog should bark. Do HOAs think that little dogs bark less or less loudly? That’s crazy talk. I have encountered plenty of little yippee dogs that are obnoxious barkers (none of whom belong to my clients, who are all very nice, by the way – and responsible).They bark every time they hear a sound (yippee dogs, not my clients). And what happens when the 30 pound dog gains weight and becomes a 40 pound dog, thus exceeding the weight limit? Does the HOA make the owner put their dog on a diet? Are they reported to their lender who in turn is compelled to call the loan?

I am assuming it is the barking issues, but maybe it’s the waste product issue. But how can you discriminate against a bigger dog with theoretically larger do-do if the waste product is promptly picked up and removed?  I know some little dogs that are really messy, poop a lot and bark incessantly. Why aren’t they barred from condominium projects?

Let’s consider the Lhasa Apso, which weighs in at approximately 13 to 15 pounds. According to BetterHousekeeping.com, “Alert and watchful, these dogs are suspicious of strangers and will bark in alarm.” These dogs were originally guard dogs for the monasteries and palaces of Tibet. I am guessing that the guys in charge of monastery security weren’t taking any chances.

Llasa apso

Now, consider the Golden Retriever. Simon Berg weighs in at 95 pounds, assuming he skipped breakfast. He is suspicious of no one. A poorly organized gang of hooded strangers could be busy carrying our television and toaster oven out the rear window, and he would sleep through it. He eats rocks.

Simon

Who do you want as your neighbor?

I have not checked the data, but I will bet that condominium projects that permit pets have a higher average sale price than comparable projects that don’t. And I’ll bet that the projects without restrictive, biased rules have even better sales results.

I had a neighbor once that liked to wash his cars in the driveway while wearing a Speedo. Give me a Rottweiler any day, yet I respected my neighbor’s right to look silly. These puppy-hating HOAs are setting a dangerous precedent. Banning random, healthy dogs is the first step. Next, my neighbor will be cited for offensive swim wear, and before you know it, the HOAs will be slapping a weight limit on me. Something really should be done.

Steve Berg

Steve Berg is Broker/Owner of San Diego Castles Realty. He is an awesome agent and an all-around great guy. When he is not dazzling clients, he contributes the occasional article here.

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  • http://out Smithers

    We had neighbors back when and where. Nice couple in their late 70s. He weighed 250 lbs or more (with at least C cup moobs) and liked to walk the ‘hood in the summer time wearing nothing more than those little dolphin shorts that were so popular until he wore them.

    He used to stretch against the stone wall that divided our properties, usually in our driveway. Somehow, Mrs. Smithers and I still had children.

    OK … so, what does this have to do with HOA dog rules? Nothing. I just thought I should share this with someone.

  • http://www.landofgraciousliving.com Loren Nason

    And for the reasons above is why I will NEVER, EVER, No-Way even remotely consider buying a residence with an HOA.

    HOA’s are evil consortiums of cranky old people making dumb rules because nobody likes them, so they make others lives difficult.

    Next thing you know they’ll ban the wearing of Kilts

  • http://www.hindmansanchez.com ColoradoHOAGal a.k.a. Melissa Garcia

    I’m not a fan of pet weight restrictions for the following reasons, in no particular order: (1) They are difficult to enforce. If the dog gains weight and is now above the maximum permitted weight – must he now be removed? If they put him on a diet, is he now permitted? (2) They are difficult to monitor. How do you know whether a dog is 30 vs. 31 pounds – will the owners be required to register the weight every year? (3) Pet restrictions should address the external problems caused to the community by the pet, which should be tied to the specific pet, not general characteristics such as weight, breed, etc. for the very reasons you stated above. The continually barking dog is much more of a nuisance and disturbance to the neighbors, then the 95 pound quiet dog.

  • http://ApsoRescueColorado.org Vickie

    Having had many an Apso through my house … and having been on the road/at shows with countless Apsos … it is generally the owner’s fault when a dog barks incessantly (lack of training/supervision). While the Apso was bred to be an interior sentinel, they are not a yappy breed per se. Most bark a warning and then settle down … their job is done. And I’ll take my 4 Apsos over the neighbor’s freakin’ barking Lab any day …

  • http://www.sandiegohomeblog.com Steve Berg

    I KNEW the Apso comparison would be result in controversy. I could have selected ANY dog and someone would have nailed me for it. Official credit goes to Kris for that one as she made the selection. I am much more sensitive.

    Smithers – Even though your comment had nothing to do with dogs or HOA’s I still found it amusing although it brought back nightmarish memories of the Speedo guy who used to live across the street. BTW – His home is now bank-owned. Is there a connection?

    Vickie – Simon is very offended.

  • http://out Smithers

    Steve, it was your “speedo” guy that reminded me of our dolphin shorts guy.

    By the way, my 17 year old cat could take two Apsos with a single paw/claw swipe. (I admit, I have no use for these yap dogs that are popular with empty-nester baby boomers).

    We don’t live in a condo, but if/when that day comes, I would prefer one with no dogs of any weight. Bottom line, dogs are loud and gotta poo. Everybody thinks their dog is different (maybe to them, it is). Dogs weren’t and aren’t meant to live in apartments (sorry, but a “condo” is an apartment). We recently stayed at a hotel in downtown Denver that was “pet friendly”. We did not know this until after we checked in. Won’t stay there again. I like dogs, but I don’t want to hear them barking when I am trying to sleep.

  • http://out Smithers

    And, I agree 100% with Loren. If you already have in-laws, why do you also want a HOA?

  • http://ApsoRescueColorado.org Vickie

    My apologies, Simon … I’m sure I’d much rather have you living next door. The barking dog issue has been going on for years and the owners, despite notice (and a visit from the police), are deaf to his vocalizations.

    Smithers … I have no use for yappy dogs either (which is why mine are not allowed to bark incessantly). I travel with dogs quite a bit and they are NOT allowed to bark in hotel rooms — or anywhere else for that matter. I don’t want to hear them barking and I’m certain no one else does either. I’m sorry your stay in Denver was less than pleasant because of an irresponsible owner. And that’s what is really boils down to … a lack of courtesy and disregard by the owner.

  • Rita Mahoney

    Simon, you look marvelous!!!

  • http://out Smithers

    Hi Vickie,

    Please – no need for you to apologize on behalf of the barking dogs. You are probablycorrect, and the owners failed to tell said dogs that they (the dogs) were not allowed to bark in the hotel room. Of course, the hotel could help out by typing up a memo that lists the things your dog cannot do in the hotel room, which the dogs would be required to acknowledge (“bark once if you agree, twice if you don’t”) before being allowed in the rooms.

    Steve, perhaps a similar arrangement can be worked out for your clients. They can have their dog promise to be a “good dog” as part of the purchase contract (The CA Realtors must already have a form for that???)

  • http://www.varealestatetalk.com Cindy

    I was on a condo board when the resolution to restrict the size of dogs in the building to 30 libs was proposed. I was opposed stating that it wasn’t the size of the dog that mattered. I was over-ruled and the ammendment passed. As an agent I’ve had to turn away some great buyers due to this crazy rule. Meanwhile a new building across the street has no restriction and I’ve sold 10 units in that building in 2009 to owners with doggies of all sizes. So far no problems.

  • http://www.sandiegohomeblog.com Steve Berg

    Cindy – Thank you!! I rest my case.

    Loren – Agreed. Unfortunately some of these same people seem to reside on various real estate boards.

    Smithers – The HOA Board comparison to in-laws is an absolute classic. Please authorize me to use it again in the future (with proper credit to you, of course).

  • http://www.sandiegohomeblog.com Steve Berg

    Rita – Simon greatly appreciates your comment. He has been on his best behavior all day, strutting around feeling pretty decent. He even voluntarily agreed to visit the groomer next week. Say hi to Eric for us. Thanks.

  • http://out Smithers

    Steve – please do so.

    When I first typed in the comment, I wrote “wife”. But on reflection before hitting “submit” (yes, I know I usually hit “submit” before reflecting), I changed it to “in-laws” just in case any wives were reading these comments.

  • Dave, a nice guy!

    There is pending litigation in the California court of appeals on the ability of a HOA to restrict pet by weight. The suit arose because there was a 30lb cat in the complex but the dog weight limit was 20lb. The plaintiff has a dog that is 27lb and received many letters, was assessed a fine and eventually had a lien placed on the home. The original decision was granted to the plaintiff (YEAH) but the HOA appealed. (I guess they have nothing better to do with your money).

  • http://www.eastsiderealestatebuzz.com Debra Sinick

    Great conversation. I just sold a condo in a Seattle suburb which would have sold before the ink was dry on the listing agreement if there had not been any pet restrictions. No pets, no matter how big or small, were allowed.

    There were at least 15 agents who called within the first couple of days after the condo went on the market to ask about the pet restrictions. None of these agents showed the condo because of these restrictions. It took a couple of more weeks to get an offer and this condo showed perfectly! I can\’t help but wonder if we would\’ve had multiple offers the first day if there had been no pet restrictions.

    I wonder if anyone has ever done an analysis to see what the appreciation rate is for condos with or without pet restrictions.

  • http://www.valeriecrowell.com Valerie Crowell

    I used to live in a condominium complex where the rule said “medium sized” dog. Well, if you look at the standard for the Doberman Pinscher it says “a compact, medium sized dog”. I lived there peacefully with my 75 pound medium sized dog. He was the nicest dog. I think sometimes you can get away with stuff if the dog is sweet and quiet and you pick up after them. If all else fails, get elected to the Board of Directors. That worked.

  • http://Www.labizlaw.com Shannon

    Can Dave contact me with the pending litigation on this issue. I being sued by an hoa in Los Angeles over this exact thing and have filed a cross complaint agaist them. Shannon@labizlaw.com.

  • Anonymous

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  • San Diego Castles Realty
  • 10636 Scripps Summit Court, Suite 153
  • San Diego, CA 92131
  • P: 858.530.2374
  • F: 858.876.1701
  • E: info (at) sandiegocastles.com
  • CA DRE# 01241572

Broker Information

  • Kris Berg, Broker
  • DRE# 01853496
  • Steve Berg, Broker
  • CA DRE# 00762095